Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

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skorpio
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Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby skorpio » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:42 pm

Hello. I hope that i'm not creating problem that is frequently featured there but...

I started using GR5 (on Win7 32 bit) a year ago with Soundblaster Live 5.1, that is, old sound card revised a bit. From beginning I had problems with the tone. When pluging guitar thru Behringer Eq700 (to get rid of noise, since the output seems to be stereo, instead of mono, so more PC friendly) I had to use scooped EQ from "Van51 scooped" to sound good. And after that, most of the tone was quite ok. My SB died, and i started using integrated realtek( (still with Behringer), but the overdrive tone was horrible. I don't know if you guys know what i'm talkin about, but imagine hitting muted A bass string and there is lots of bass, like 10x than other frequencies. So I bought Behringer UCg102, and heard people using it with good results but the tone was identical to that of realtek. I installed the xp and used headphones out of the ucg (so onboard realtek was inactive), the same. Installed ucg102 on the asus ee pc netbook, the same. The NI knows about it, since that scooped eq perfectly helps (to some extend), at least helped on Soundblaster, but not much know.

I can record some samples, compare with results that i got earlier if you don't know hat i'm talking about.
And yes, i know how to setup amps in GR5 (been mainly using control room pro with peavey 5150, good results)
The guitar is Epi Worn Brown with Seymour SH-11 (it was in another cheapo guitar before, same results). Guitar sounds normal in Marshall MG15CFx through 12" Greenback.

jorismak
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby jorismak » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:44 pm

Very much like another GR5 thread at the moment :S.

I have the feeling input volume for the guitar signal is not set OK. Maybe way too low or way too high.

Anyway, can you post a recording of your DI signal (so the tape-deck at the start of Guitar Rig, not at the end of the chain).
Is the red clip light going on on your UCG102? It shouldn't :).

Are you using ASIO mode (in guitar rig audio settings) now with the UCG102 instead of WASAPI or DirectSound?

skorpio
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby skorpio » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:04 pm

Ok, I'll post my settings + some samples, gimme few minutes ;)

Edit:

Ok, link to the audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WpnvW ... e=youtu.be (at around 0:52 there is a sound volume difference, so turn down volume, yeah should've fixed that in audacity...)

Ah, and don't why that cracks in clean happen, that was not the case even yesterday...

First, VH riff recorded year ago, 2nd - dry audio, 3rd - Peavey 5150 riff without and with EQ scooping, respectively, 4th - Marshall JMP sample (can't remember if eq was on or off)

https://imageshack.us/i/p6S9tfC6p

I'm redirecting sound from UCG input to speakers output via Asio4all, but the same sound is using Behringer ASIO and headphones as I said.

And no, clipping on the ucg does not occur, the same sound on 44 and 48 kHz, low or high impedance input on UCG... i really don't know what can be done :?

jorismak
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby jorismak » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:26 am

To be honest, it all sounds reasonable OK (if not a little bit noisy). That bass 'explosion' when palm muting is what happens, resonance in the cab and the mic. Pulling the mic back a bit might make it less pronounced.

Your tone's all sound like they should sound to be honest. Maybe your signal is a little bit too hot for my taste (try lowering your input volume a bit, but it's subjective so decide for yourself).

The clicks happen because you're using ASIO4all with two different devices (which you shouldn't do). After a while the audio starts to drift between the devices and the clicks happen (and will get worse over time). Don't mix devices. If you're lucky it might work if the devices have the same clock (as in, very expensive studio equipment which use an external clock-device of extremely cheap usb-devices which use the usb-chipset as clock. Your behringer -> usb, your hd audio -> isn't -> clicks).

Can you just post the .wav files of your raw unprocessed audio? Not on a compressed host like youtube, makes it kinda useless to look at.

skorpio
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby skorpio » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Ok, the sound file itself. The forum says wavs are not allowed, 20 mb is still quite a lot so here is external link
http://rg.to/file/57790b0f84c2dfabc7e0d ... 5.wav.html

jorismak
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby jorismak » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:13 pm

mp3 in high bitrate would be enough.. 140kbps youtube video won't do it :).

I don't understand the link you posted. I click 'slow download', a timer starts from 45 seconds to 0, once that I see 'getting link' for a second and then the page refreshes and I can choose again between slow or fast(paid) download.. No download link appears and clicking 'slow' starts the countdown timer again.

jorismak
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby jorismak » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:51 pm

Used a tool to download the youtube link as .mp4, loaded it into Reaper, selected the DI part and bounced it as .wav file :).
Then loaded it up in Izotope RX-3 to remove as much of the cracks and clicks in it as I could.

Then, loaded up Guitar Rig 5, put the Van51 amp on it, lead channel gain at 4, high gain input, bass at 4, mid + treble at 6, resonance at 6, presence at 6, post gain at 3.

To be honest, I raised Guitar Rig's input volume by about 6.0 dB, and I used an external OwnHammer IR as cabinet.

This is what I get just with the Van51 (gr5 no 808.mp3) and with the Skreamer (volume in the middle, tone in the middle, drive at 0 (or maybe 0.5, but extremely low) before the Van51 (gr5 with 808.mp3)

Sounds alright to me?

So maybe the cabinet you had on was just 'to boomy' ?

As a test I tried again, and using the 'control room pro' in Guitar Rig to make a cab.
Took the 4x12 Gratifier with a SM57 (not in the center position, one step more in the middle) and a 2nd mic also on the 4x12 Gratifier with a R121 (same position as the SM57). The r121 is quite lower in volume than the SM57 though. I ended up with this: (gr5cabs with 808.mp3)

This is clearly not a scooped sound, and sounds to be honest exactly how it should sound comparing your raw guitar track.

If you think your guitar pickup is just too bass heavy, you can put the GuitarRig5 treble-booster pedal in front of your amp, or the 'fast comp' (and make sure you see it working but not all the time). Just to equalize the sound coming from your pickups.


But to be honest, it sounds quite OK.. how a raw single guitar track should sound. You can scoop it if you like that (but you'll get problems with mixing later :P) and that will enhance the bass (less mids means more bass and treble for the ears).

I think what you encounter is just having to do with mic'ing up a guitar cabinet (and why your realworld Marshall MG seems to sound OK). Putting a mic real close to a speaker cabinet will enhance the bass enormously, specially with the R121 mic.

The first thing mixers will do with a guitar track is high-pass it to get the bass under control, so it sounds quite normal what you posted in the YouTube link... noisy, but the tone seems to be OK. Maybe I just don't understand what you're problem seems to be?
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skorpio
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby skorpio » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:27 pm

Wow, i'm just stunned how much work you just did to solve my problem ;) Hm.. I used different pickup on old recordings to be honest, but that was Giovanni GCH-2, still very ballsy, but with creative SB live, so 2 things changed at the same time. I could get the creative again, since my tone chasing in guitar rig ended with it and ultimately eliminate the last thing that i'm thinking of.. I will record some more samples with old presets. (and upload them maybe)

Ok, i just put some presets at the moment (+ some other sample), since i can't remember which exactly is which old sample. You may test them if you want, i'm interested how they would sound with your guitar. The raw signal in third speaker setup (DI Box) was cut since mostly i used 22kHz with soundblaster.

Maybe I just don't understand what you're problem seems to be?


My tone was aimed at early VH using Van51, I had quite good results, now the tone is muddy, ballsy where it shouldn't.

I will post when I'll get SB again.
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scottly99
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Re: Guitar Rig 5 tone problem

Postby scottly99 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:46 am

Hi
Realize this is an old thread...
but I am having the exact same sort of problem.
My dry guitar signal SEEMS ok - but when I run it through any AMP sim, GR, Amplitube, Bias FX, TH2...
I'm struggling to get a listenable tone - it tends to break up - esp in the higher end.

I've been using LINE IN into the on-board RealTek sound card for a 18+ months - quite happily..
Until I started to try and record with reaper. Hmmm weak-ish tone and a tad muddy...
but playing live in GR5 or similar is ok to me.
Even applying a FX to the dry track in Reaper, I was able to get some ok sounds - sure they aren't studio quality in clarity but perfectly listenable...

I got a Steinberg UR12 for Hi Z input connection for guitar.
Ok - excited about getting more clarity..
But did NOT expect to be gettin piercing and horrible tone.

I can normally sort these sorts of things out.
But my crappy tone through the Steinberg is really annoying me - and I'm wasting so much time with it - not even enjoying picking up guitar anymore... wife is getting annoyed too.

I'm only using a single coil Chinese strat copy, replaced the ceramic pups with alnico ones...
through a cheap effect pedal into a practice amp, it sounds ok.

I've since gone back to my line-in.


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